From drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sun Aug 24 15:41:58 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA13876; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 15:41:54 -0500 Received: from lists.pipex.com (unipalmpipex-www.pipex.net) by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08055; Sun, 24 Aug 97 15:55:35 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: from ([127.0.0.1]) by lists.pipex.com (UUNET PIPEX simple 1.29) id VAA24241; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:51:37 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:51:37 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199708242034.NAA01918@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: chrisk@webtv.net (Chris Krisocki) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: GV: The Tomb of the Cybermen (quite long) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) X-Status: Status: RO Is it just me, or do fewer and fewer people comment on the story of the week each week? Anyway, there's not much to be said about this one that hasn't been said already, so I thought I'd set down some of my thoughts. I got a really high quality audio recording of this around mid-1987 or so, and the audio alone is chilling. I remember being irritated at what I thought were false accents, but I've since seen three of the actors involved in other things (Captain Hopper in an Honor Blackman Avengers episode, Kleig in the movie Khartoum, and Callum in Paradise Towers) and they all sound the same in their other roles. Still, some of Kleig's dialog is a bit difficult to understand. It took the video release for me to make out that he's saying "it was our plan" toward the end of episode 2, and I still don't know what he's saying a few times in episode 4, particularly when he's holding the gun by the controls in his last scene. Ahh, the controls. Those levers look so cheaply made and unsophisticated, though all the other sets are highly impressive, particularly the main chamber, complete with Pac-Man on that large dial thing many times over. The effects work is all good too, apart from the obvious piano wires and dummy Controller. The close-up Cybermat scenes are a bit disturbing, with their blood-shot eyes moving about and those fringes that remind me of cilia moving around. Wonder why the first one is so tiny compared to all the others? What did it do to Kaftan, inject something into her to make her unconscious? Mayber since it was such a small one it didn't do as much harm as a full-sized one could. The forced perspective shots are both very good too, and for once the snow really looks like snow. (This is only really noticeable when Jamie pats some off Toberman's head.) Why didn't anyone notice Toberman's different arm? Troughton's Doctor is wonderfully devious, and he's got a certain mischievous quality that probably wouldn't be equally for the rest of his tenure. He strikes me as highly irresponsible. By rights he shouldn't have even tried to open the doors, but then we wouldn't have a story, would we? The music lends a 1930's horror film style to it, especially the mood music, such as in the famous Doctor's family scene. I wonder, does the fact that it's all on film now increase the tension? Its lowly videotape origins are well disguised by subdued lighting that makes you feel as though you're really in a strange place far away. There are a few things I don't like. One is the Cybermen calling everyone "humanoid", and the other is Kleig's B-movie dialog (when I could understand it!) I spotted a microphone shadow in the scene where the Controller is about to be revitalized, the tubing on the first Cyberman to leave the Tomb is loose and trails down its sides, and there's a tear visible in one Cyber costume in the Cyberman who tries to pull Jamie down the ladder. All this is quickly forgotten in the sheer tension that pervades the whole story, one which I would have no hesitation in showing to a non-fan. Great stuff! Now let's hope they find a season 4 story soon... From drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sun Aug 24 20:39:04 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA17270; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:39:02 -0500 Received: from lists.pipex.com (unipalmpipex-www.pipex.net) by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09487; Sun, 24 Aug 97 20:52:43 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: from ([127.0.0.1]) by lists.pipex.com (UUNET PIPEX simple 1.29) id CAA29246; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 02:50:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 02:50:03 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <01BCB0CE.911A4220@michaell@execpc.com> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Lee To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: GV: The Tomb of the Cybermen X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4025 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO On Sunday, August 24, 1997 3:51 PM, Chris Krisocki [SMTP:chrisk@webtv.net] wrote: > Is it just me, or do fewer and fewer people comment on the story of > the week each week? Anyway, there's not much to be said about this one > that hasn't been said already, so I thought I'd set down some of my > thoughts. There's been less to say about the last two stories, perhaps, and sometimes it's difficult to find time around a TV when you have some nice weather... That said, I just finished up Tomb of the Cybermen myself, and so it is time for some comments. [It's also one I suggested, so I really feel obligated.. :) ] It's been a black and white weekend for me; I sat through both _The War Machines_ and _Quatermass and the Pit_ yesterday... and then I popped Tomb in a few hours ago. > Ahh, the controls. Those levers look so cheaply made and > unsophisticated, though all the other sets are highly impressive, > particularly the main chamber, complete with Pac-Man on that large dial > thing many times over. The effects work is all good too, apart from the > obvious piano wires and dummy Controller. I think Tomb uses its budget quite well -- the primary tomb shots are quite nice, and it still looks good. It's an obviously influencial image -- the Borg ship interior, for example, is similar with the budget being the major difference. I think Telos looks better here than it does in Attack of the Cybermen. > Troughton's Doctor is wonderfully devious, and he's got a certain > mischievous quality that probably wouldn't be equally for the rest of > his tenure. He strikes me as highly irresponsible. By rights he > shouldn't have even tried to open the doors, but then we wouldn't have a > story, would we? Troughton's the delight of this story. Unlike the rest of his existing stories, we have one early enough in his tenure that he's still on top of his form; almost every portrayal of the Doctor draws something from Troughton, far more than any other. His scenes with Victoria and Klieg are both excellent -- playful, mischevious, kind, devious... They're what Doctor Who should be all about -- "Now I know you're mad". > All this is quickly forgotten in the sheer tension that pervades the > whole story, one which I would have no hesitation in showing to a > non-fan. Great stuff! Now let's hope they find a season 4 story soon... This is relatively definitive Doctor Who... It wouldn't necessarily be my first choice [unless I knew the person was tolerent towards black and white] But it'd certainly be my first Troughton, as it's the best of the ones that are still in existance, and it's also a definitive appearance of one of the core Doctor Who elements [the Cybermen]. It's also the best Cybermen story, one of the few times they live up to the quality of their concept... On the down side, this is one of the handful of Doctor Who stories that I find a little disconcerting to watch do to some sterotypical characterizations -- both ethnically [Toberman, Klieg, and Kaftan...and perhaps the American captain] and some sexism [thankfully much of this is criticized by Victoria] It doesn't totally ruin the story, but it's obviously dated because of it. Michael Lee michaell@execpc.com http://www.execpc.com/~michaell From drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sun Aug 24 21:15:24 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA17377; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:15:22 -0500 Received: from lists.pipex.com (unipalmpipex-www.pipex.net) by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09644; Sun, 24 Aug 97 21:29:03 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: from ([127.0.0.1]) by lists.pipex.com (UUNET PIPEX simple 1.29) id DAA29785; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 03:25:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 03:25:35 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199708250211.TAA21879@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: chrisk@webtv.net (Chris Krisocki) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: The Tomb of the Cybermen X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) X-Status: Status: RO On the subject of stereotypes: even Kaftan's name is suspect. I would guess she's meant to be Middle Eastern, where kaftans are worn, or were several centuries ago. [I recently saw the Channel 4/TLC co-production about Byzantium with John Romer, so it's fresh in my mind] Doesn't she look a bit like Jacqueline Hill? Wonder how tall Captain Hopper is? He seems to tower over everybody. Even with beautiful weather, I still manage to find the time. Walking around New York City for several hours yesterday made me tired and ready to watch Tomb again. Hope I can find the time for The Mutants, which I haven't seen in ages. From drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Mon Aug 25 03:19:39 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA24905; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 03:19:37 -0500 Received: from lists.pipex.com (unipalmpipex-www.pipex.net) by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14387; Mon, 25 Aug 97 03:33:17 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: from ([127.0.0.1]) by lists.pipex.com (UUNET PIPEX simple 1.29) id JAA07997; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:31:20 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:31:20 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <1606A941CBC@arts.gla.ac.uk>. Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: "Gerard Sweeney" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Terror of the Zygons X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42) X-Status: Status: RO > MY good mate Col is from Edinburgh. > At any time he can get away with it, he wears full higland regalia (kilt, > knife etc..) he eats Haggis on Burn's nicht, and although exiled in > Newcastle can rant quite freely about the English. So theye DO exist. > he's also a footy causal and a part-time psychopath, so he conforms > entirely to my sterotypical expectations. As you say, he is a psychopath and has been exiled. That was because of his habits of displaying the stereotypical Jock. We know of his existance, but his files have been classified TOP SECRET in our department, and we must ask you to refrain from metioning him again. Gerard.