From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Sun Sep 21 15:40:09 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA15900; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 15:40:01 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08244; Sun, 21 Sep 97 15:40:02 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 27526 invoked by uid 5378); 21 Sep 1997 20:38:59 -0000 Date: 21 Sep 1997 20:38:59 -0000 Message-Id: <01BCC6A2.82D17D20@michaell@execpc.com> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Lee To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4025 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO I'll get this started, since I chose it, and we've had a couple of quiet weeks. I picked this episode for a couple of reasons. First of all, I think it's probably the most effective part of the entire Trial -- because the trial rarely intrudes on the story. Mel's good in this -- but she is often maligned in my mind more for being Bonnie Langford than anything fundementally wrong with the character. It's also because this story is a throwback to earlier era of Doctor Who -- it's a Tom Baker story. It's Planet of Evil, Robots of Death, and Nightmare of Eden mixed together and served with a side salad. The costumes are exactly out of that era, especially. It's amusing that in a story that is set "in the Doctor's future" that it turns out to be a throw back to the series most successful era. I'm sure I'll think of more comments as I go on, but that should hopefully get the ball rolling. If you haven't watched the story recently, go ahead, I'll still be here. :) Michael Lee michaell@execpc.com http://www.execpc.com/~michaell From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Sun Sep 21 19:24:36 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA04923; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:24:30 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11118; Sun, 21 Sep 97 19:24:25 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 9480 invoked by uid 5378); 22 Sep 1997 00:23:34 -0000 Date: 22 Sep 1997 00:23:33 -0000 Message-Id: <199709220015.RAA19420@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: chrisk@webtv.net (Chris Krisocki) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: GV: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) X-Status: Status: RO I have mixed feelings about this story: on the one hand, it's a truly suspenseful piece of television with a fairly decent script. On the other it's got lots of flaws and shortcomings that really irritate me. The good stuff first: There's a fairly large cast, which adds a bit to the realism, and the Mogarians are quite unusual for a DW alien race. The way the Black Hole of Tartarus looks is imaginative (though it sounds like everyone's saying Tarter Sauce). Whenever Michael Jayston appears there's a sense of awe: he's wonderful in this story, and he has a sinister aspect, which is helped by the way he doesn't use those awful epithets when he addresses Madam Inquisitor like he did in the first two Trial serials. The bad stuff: this is 1000 years in the future, yet electronic keys are not used on the doors, and they have obviously 20th century doorknobs. Plus, it looks like the doors are never locked: Kimber goes into his room, saying he's a bit upset at the goings on, yet fails to lock his door as he prepares to go to sleep. Lasky leaves the isolation room, yet the Doctor gets into immediately afterward with no problems whatsoever. Then there's that awful bit in the beginning. Lasky's key to cabin 9 opens cabin 6 with no problem? Oh, puleease. There's some dodgy CSO as well. Watch out for the patches of Colin Baker's coat that disappear when he's "outside". Plus I spotted a continuity error: right before the axe scene, there's a shot of a door that says "stewardess." Yet later on, when this door. leading to the communications room is opened, it says "crew only." Maybe we're supposed to think the Valeyard made a mistake? The Vervoids could have been made more realistic. They don't convince me at all. Giving one of them an accent like Stor's doesn't help either. How'd they learn English so easily? The story's ending took me completely by surprise, but I thought it was far too much a cop-out that vionisium would be just the thing they'd need to solve their problems. Too much like hexachromite for my liking. My recording came from the American premiere off NJN. Remember watching that night, Tom? NJN chopped off the closing credits. Made me a bit upset :) From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Sun Sep 21 21:59:28 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA21793; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:59:22 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11776; Sun, 21 Sep 97 21:59:17 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 16468 invoked by uid 5378); 22 Sep 1997 02:58:23 -0000 Date: 22 Sep 1997 02:58:23 -0000 Message-Id: <01BCC6D7.71EC2160@michaell@execpc.com> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Lee To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4025 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO On Sunday, September 21, 1997 7:23 PM, Chris Krisocki [SMTP:chrisk@webtv.net] wrote: > The Vervoids could have been made more realistic. They don't convince > me at all. Giving one of them an accent like Stor's doesn't help either. > How'd they learn English so easily? That's certainly a good point -- I don't think the Vervoids are terrible looking -- Alpha Centauri is worse, and none of the monsters from Season 17 [one of the seasons that this episode reminds me of] are better either. I imagine they were biologically engineered to understand English -- remember, they were intended to work as slaves for humans. And I'll give the story credit -- at least one alien race didn't naturally speak english. The Vervoid grafted to a human [perhaps this was how they learned English?] was also fairly good -- not quite as good as the similar conversions in "Ark in Space" or "Seeds of Doom", but still pretty good. But it could have been even better. > The story's ending took me completely by surprise, but I thought it > was far too much a cop-out that vionisium would be just the thing they'd > need to solve their problems. Too much like hexachromite for my liking. The ending is one of the weak points; because it's a "magic-tech" solution [fortunately it plays at least some part in the plot] certainly. Also, I'm slightly confused about the way time works in the story -- if this takes place in the Doctor's future, then the present day Doctor can stand trials for crimes he hasn't committed yet [and these future crimes are somehow worse than his last ones]. However, if he's found guilty and executed, he can't commit those crimes. OR -- to go to the other extreme -- he could be tried for the crimes that he will commit as the Valeyard... Interesting to think about. Michael Lee michaell@execpc.com http://www.execpc.com/~michaell From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Mon Sep 22 05:51:44 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA16384; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 05:51:38 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16503; Mon, 22 Sep 97 05:51:34 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 27833 invoked by uid 5378); 22 Sep 1997 10:50:36 -0000 Date: 22 Sep 1997 10:50:36 -0000 Message-Id: <199709220937.TAA18394@smople.thehub.com.au> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: shane@thehub.com.au (Shane Wright) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Status: Status: RO > >I'll get this started, since I chose it, and we've had a couple of quiet weeks. > >I picked this episode for a couple of reasons. First of all, I think it's >probably the most effective part of the entire Trial -- because the trial >rarely intrudes on the story. Mel's good in this -- but she is often maligned >in my mind more for being Bonnie Langford than anything fundementally wrong >with the character. Sad I might be, but I was mighty imnpressed with TOV, one for Bonnie Langford and two for the ravishing presence of Honor Blackman. Guest stars never impressed me, really, even Maurice Denham, but I remember really feeling that Dr Who had achieved something when I saw HB. Ahhh, if only they had have continued the theme and had Maryam D'Abo in Time and the Rani..... saw Hold you in his armchair/ You can feel his disease. From drwho-l-owner-shill=info1.harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Mon Sep 22 07:02:20 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA21246; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 07:02:10 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16754; Mon, 22 Sep 97 07:02:01 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 1774 invoked by uid 5378); 22 Sep 1997 12:00:55 -0000 Date: 22 Sep 1997 12:00:55 -0000 Message-Id: <404584615AD@arts.gla.ac.uk>. Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: "Gerard Sweeney" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In-Reply-To: <199709220937.TAA18394@smople.thehub.com.au> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) X-Status: Status: RO Saw said.. > Sad I might be, but I was mighty imnpressed with TOV, one for Bonnie > Langford and two for the ravishing presence of Honor Blackman. Guest stars > never impressed me, really, even Maurice Denham, but I remember really > feeling that Dr Who had achieved something when I saw HB. Ahhh, if only > they had have continued the theme and had Maryam D'Abo in Time and the Rani..... Well, I always hoped that one time they would have this female guest star on.. She's absolutely gorgeous.. Dark hair, very posh accent... First name Mary.. Surname is something like... Tom? Tim? Ah.. Tam.. Yes, that's it Mary Tamm... She was bloomin' gorgeous.. They should have got her in it and then folk on this mailing list could have written in their undying love for her in an almost scary way :-) (Oh? She was in it? heheheh) Gerard. This seemed a reasonably funny idea at the time. Sorry :-)) From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Mon Sep 22 08:11:30 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA17963; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:11:24 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19612; Mon, 22 Sep 97 08:11:24 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 6129 invoked by uid 5378); 22 Sep 1997 13:10:03 -0000 Date: 22 Sep 1997 13:10:02 -0000 Message-Id: Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: Tim Kendrick To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: GV: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline X-Status: Status: RO I liked this one a lot. Actually I like ALL of "Trial ..." but this one in particular is really wonderful. It might have even been better as a "stand-alone", without any trial involvement. As someone else said, it's almost a tribute to Tom Baker's era, with little bits of similarities throughout. Mel is a wonderful character here. I think it's only in later stories that she becomes really annoying. She seems like she already knows the Doctor very well. How long was she supposed to have known him when this story takes place ??? So, whose going to pick a Group View selection for this upcoming weekend ??? Tim K. VISIT MY NEWLY CREATED WEBPAGE: www.earthlink.net/~tim63 (not much there, and it's nothing fancy, but not bad for two days effort!) From drwho-l-owner-shill=info1.harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Mon Sep 22 15:40:26 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA21472; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:40:04 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00722; Mon, 22 Sep 97 15:39:43 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 2341 invoked by uid 5378); 22 Sep 1997 20:38:41 -0000 Date: 22 Sep 1997 20:38:41 -0000 Message-Id: Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: Colin Sullivan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Status: Status: RO >> > >>I'll get this started, since I chose it, and we've had a couple of quiet >>weeks. >> >>I picked this episode for a couple of reasons. First of all, I think it's >>probably the most effective part of the entire Trial -- because the trial >>rarely intrudes on the story. Mel's good in this -- but she is often >>maligned >>in my mind more for being Bonnie Langford than anything fundementally wrong >>with the character. > > >Sad I might be, but I was mighty imnpressed with TOV, one for Bonnie >Langford and two for the ravishing presence of Honor Blackman. hmmmm wasn't tov just robots of death with plants in, or is it just me . . . . ? colin ********************************************* "should i talk the way you want me to talk say things the way you want to hear them (i know a lot of people like that . . .)" virgin prunes ********************************************* From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Mon Sep 22 16:15:31 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA23842; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:15:22 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05574; Mon, 22 Sep 97 16:15:07 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 4837 invoked by uid 5378); 22 Sep 1997 21:13:37 -0000 Date: 22 Sep 1997 21:13:37 -0000 Message-Id: <9709222105.AA19067@info1.harper.cc.il.us> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: shill@info1.harper.cc.il.us (Steve Hill) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List In-Reply-To: from "Colin Sullivan" at Sep 22, 97 08:38:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO > >Sad I might be, but I was mighty imnpressed with TOV, one for Bonnie > >Langford and two for the ravishing presence of Honor Blackman. > > wasn't tov just robots of death with plants in, or is it just me . . . . ? > colin And now, a quote from a scene in our movie "The Reign of Turner": JNT: Don't be ridiculous. Pipinjane is a great asset to the show. He's had a long career...she's even written for Space: 1999! COLIN: If they're so good, why did the script have "Leela" crossed out, and "Mel" written in, in crayon? http://shill.simplenet.com/feds.htm for information. -- [][] [][] Steve Hill, Network Communications Specialist, 847-925-6273 [] [] [] Harper College, 1200 W Algonquin Rd, Palatine IL 60067-7398 http://shill.simplenet.com Harper College: [] [] [] shill@harper.cc.il.us www.harper.cc.il.us [][] [][] Do you have an old Beta VCR you want to sell? Email me. From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Mon Sep 22 17:07:05 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA22775; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:07:01 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10358; Mon, 22 Sep 97 17:06:55 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 8273 invoked by uid 5378); 22 Sep 1997 22:05:39 -0000 Date: 22 Sep 1997 22:05:39 -0000 Message-Id: <41D7F446F943D011A10C00A02441AF7B040C0A@wingate> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Lee To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4025 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO On Monday, September 22, 1997 4:22 PM, Steve Hill [SMTP:shill@info1.harper.cc.il.us] wrote: > > wasn't tov just robots of death with plants in, or is it just me . . . . ? > > colin > > And now, a quote from a scene in our movie "The Reign of Turner": > > JNT: Don't be ridiculous. Pipinjane is a great asset to the show. He's > had a long career...she's even written for Space: 1999! > > COLIN: If they're so good, why did the script have "Leela" crossed out, > and "Mel" written in, in crayon? Yes... but I don't think it's just "Robots" with plants. True, it's got the murder-mystery plot [TOV at least hones up to it by having Honor Blackman's character reading "Murder on the Orient Express"], and the Vervoids are somewhat similar to the Robots, but the Vervoids aren't quite in the same position that the Robots were -- Robots required the Robots to be a tool, something that the society was already dependent on. The Mogarans are new to this episode, and while they're mostly there for the Doctor to have a chance to show that he's smarter than any of the other trial participants, there is some cleverness there. And there isn't a Taren Capel figure -- someone who actually *wishes* he was a plant -- in the story. (Perhaps that character appeared in "Seeds of Doom" instead. :) ) I think Pip and Jane's reputation is a little bit undeserved. "Time and the Rani" is certainly at the bottom of the pile, but both "Terror of the Vervoids" and "Mark and the Rani" are at least respectible. Trial ep 14 is a bit of a mess, but that's not entirely their fault. [But Terror *is* highly derivative of Tom Baker Who, unquestionably.] Michael Lee http://www.execpc.com/~michaell From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Mon Sep 22 20:16:15 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA13873; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:16:13 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00281; Mon, 22 Sep 97 20:16:13 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 19305 invoked by uid 5378); 23 Sep 1997 01:14:50 -0000 Date: 23 Sep 1997 01:14:49 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970923090032.00978950@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: Simon Oxwell To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) In-Reply-To: <41D7F446F943D011A10C00A02441AF7B040C0A@wingate> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Status: Status: RO At 22:05 22/09/97 -0000, you wrote: > [TOV at least hones up to it by having Honor Blackman's ^---- Shouldn't this be 'hams'? >character reading "Murder on the Orient Express"], and the Vervoids are >Michael Lee >http://www.execpc.com/~michaell Simon the Null Smurf ObWho: Umm. I really like how the the back of the CD cover for the John Debney Doctor Who moive thingy says 'For Promotional Use Only. Not Licensed for Public Sale'. I bought mine from a comic shop. How public can you get? Not that I'm complaining, mind. From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Tue Sep 23 05:10:31 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA13202; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 05:10:25 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14598; Tue, 23 Sep 97 05:10:19 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 17809 invoked by uid 5378); 23 Sep 1997 10:09:20 -0000 Date: 23 Sep 1997 10:09:20 -0000 Message-Id: <7953@bates.wn.planet.gen.nz> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: abates@wn.planet.gen.nz (Alden Bates) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v3.5 X-Status: Status: RO Michael Lee wrote: >I picked this episode for a couple of reasons. First of all, I think it's >probably the most effective part of the entire Trial -- because the trial >rarely intrudes on the story. Mel's good in this -- but she is often maligned >in my mind more for being Bonnie Langford than anything fundementally wrong >with the character. Probably... I haven't actually bothered to watch this story, because I already know it off by heart... Probably the silliest bit of this story is the first console room sequence. It's unnecessary and adds nothing to the story, but this is because it's basically Mel's introduction. Besides, it's fun watching her and the Doctor fight. :-) There are a number of flaws in this story... Not the least of which is the fact that they have unteen armed guards running around, and none of them even _think_ to try shooting the Vervoids. If they'd explained this away by stating that the guns were useless against them, this might have been plausible. But guards aren't noted for their intelligence in the Who universe. An interesting note to the adventure is this: The Doctor and Mel appear to have only just met. The Doctor is surprised to be the recipient of carrot juice in the first scene. The elephant joke is made for the first time... This leads to the suggestion that it would take place right after Mel's arrival in the TARDIS. Millennial Rites refutes that. They haven't encountered the Vervoids yet, and Mel's already been with the Doctor for two years. I submit the theory that Vervoids _should_ have happened right after Mel joined the TARDIS, but because of the trial, this is changed and Terror of the Vervoids never happened. They never visit the Hyperion, and the Doctor is not guilty of the genocide of the Vervoids. Anyone wanna rumble? ;-) Alden Bates. -- abates@wn.planet.gen.nz | alden@bates.wn.planet.gen.nz "That's a daft idea." | http://www.wn.planet.gen.nz/~abates/ If replying to news article, please alter the email address From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Tue Sep 23 07:47:50 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA21984; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:47:48 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15781; Tue, 23 Sep 97 07:47:50 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 26757 invoked by uid 5378); 23 Sep 1997 12:44:33 -0000 Date: 23 Sep 1997 12:44:33 -0000 Message-Id: <199709231241.HAA09705@mail.xnet.com> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: george@embossed.chi.il.us To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List In-Reply-To: <7953@bates.wn.planet.gen.nz> from "Alden Bates" at Sep 23, 97 10:09:20 am Content-Type: text X-Status: Status: RO Alden wrote: > There are a number of flaws in this story... Not the least of > which is the fact that they have unteen armed guards running > around, and none of them even _think_ to try shooting the > Vervoids. If they'd explained this away by stating that the guns > were useless against them, this might have been plausible. > > But guards aren't noted for their intelligence in the Who universe. > "Then let them die! That is the purpose of guards!" State of Decay, I think? george From drwho-l-owner-shill=info1.harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Tue Sep 23 12:50:44 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA23115; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:50:42 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29127; Tue, 23 Sep 97 12:50:42 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 16812 invoked by uid 5378); 23 Sep 1997 17:39:53 -0000 Date: 23 Sep 1997 17:39:53 -0000 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970923172853.006b27f0@raex.com> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: Cecilia To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Status: Status: RO At 12:44 PM 9/23/97 -0000, george@embossed.chi.il.us wrote: > >Alden wrote: > >> There are a number of flaws in this story... Not the least of >> which is the fact that they have unteen armed guards running >> around, and none of them even _think_ to try shooting the >> Vervoids. If they'd explained this away by stating that the guns >> were useless against them, this might have been plausible. >> >> But guards aren't noted for their intelligence in the Who universe. >> >"Then let them die! That is the purpose of guards!" > >State of Decay, I think? > >I thought that was a quote from the Sheriff of Nottingham on the Robin of Sherwood show. Actually, it is used quite often - good old generic, killable, ignorant extras. Where would any show be without them! Lady C., the Anceunt One From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Tue Sep 23 14:26:33 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA19194; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:26:26 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10939; Tue, 23 Sep 97 14:25:40 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 24069 invoked by uid 5378); 23 Sep 1997 19:23:54 -0000 Date: 23 Sep 1997 19:23:54 -0000 Message-Id: Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: Worth Godwin To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline X-Status: Status: RO >>> Alden Bates - 9/23/97 6:09 AM >>> >I submit the theory that Vervoids _should_ have happened right >after Mel joined the TARDIS, but because of the trial, this is >changed and Terror of the Vervoids never happened. They never visit >the Hyperion, and the Doctor is not guilty of the genocide of the >Vervoids. > >Anyone wanna rumble? ;-) Heh. Uh oh. Does this mean Terror isn't cannon? How about the trial scenes in it, then? ;) Worth -=-=- The TARDIS Databanks: http://www.compcenter.com/~worth/drwho/ Homepage: http://www.compcenter.com/~worth/ From drwho-l-owner-shill=info1.harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Tue Sep 23 19:52:45 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA19031; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:52:43 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21171; Tue, 23 Sep 97 19:52:44 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 12018 invoked by uid 5378); 24 Sep 1997 00:50:51 -0000 Date: 24 Sep 1997 00:50:51 -0000 Message-Id: <342854EA.6BC@prodigy.net> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: George Morris To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Trial of a Time Lord ["Terror of the Vervoids"] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO > >"Then let them die! That is the purpose of guards!" > > > >State of Decay, I think? > > > >I thought that was a quote from the Sheriff of Nottingham on the Robin of > Sherwood show. Actually, it is used quite often - good old generic, > killable, ignorant extras. Where would any show be without them! Like in Space Above & Beyond: Doesn't anyone notice that a transfer into the 58th squadron is a death sentence? It got to the point where only some sadistic admiral with a grudge would actually transfer someone they knew. I mean... "Hi! My name is... AAARRGHH!" got to be a bit old pretty quick. Or in the original Trek: No not the red tunic! Never beam down dressed like that! Don't they teach you anything at the academy anymore!? For goddesses sake, man, change your shirt! You don't need to wear a red badge of courage to impress the natives! Any old, roadkill toupee will do! From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Fri Sep 26 09:32:36 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA16120; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:32:17 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12767; Fri, 26 Sep 97 09:32:15 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 28970 invoked by uid 5378); 26 Sep 1997 14:30:12 -0000 Date: 26 Sep 1997 14:30:12 -0000 Message-Id: <199709261413.HAA19393@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: chrisk@webtv.net (Chris Krisocki) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: GV: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) X-Status: Status: RO I just thought of something else about this story: why would the Doctor choose to show an adventure where he commits genocide at the end? He seems to be aware of Article 7 when the Inquisitor mentions it, so why didn't he find something else to show? Did he think the Valeyard wouldn't notice the outcome? From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Fri Sep 26 10:43:01 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA24749; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:42:43 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24220; Fri, 26 Sep 97 10:41:57 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 2833 invoked by uid 5378); 26 Sep 1997 15:39:21 -0000 Date: 26 Sep 1997 15:39:21 -0000 Message-Id: <46813585EB1@arts.gla.ac.uk>. Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: "Gerard Sweeney" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In-Reply-To: <199709261413.HAA19393@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) X-Status: Status: RO > I just thought of something else about this story: why would the > Doctor choose to show an adventure where he commits genocide at the > end? He seems to be aware of Article 7 when the Inquisitor mentions > it, so why didn't he find something else to show? Did he think the > Valeyard wouldn't notice the outcome? Why didn't he show some of his adventures from his previous incarnations? Or even his Doc #7 incarnation... No come to think of it, if he had shown his NA stuff, he'd have been for the chop without any doubt! :-) Gerard. From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Fri Sep 26 11:15:47 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA13153; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:15:30 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00392; Fri, 26 Sep 97 11:15:14 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 4778 invoked by uid 5378); 26 Sep 1997 16:13:44 -0000 Date: 26 Sep 1997 16:13:44 -0000 Message-Id: <970926110210.a123@KCPL.LIB.MO.US> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: John Horner To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Status: Status: RO >> I just thought of something else about this story: why would the >> Doctor choose to show an adventure where he commits genocide at the >> end? He seems to be aware of Article 7 when the Inquisitor mentions >> it, so why didn't he find something else to show? Did he think the >> Valeyard wouldn't notice the outcome? > >Why didn't he show some of his adventures from his previous >incarnations? Or even his Doc #7 incarnation... No come to think of >it, if he had shown his NA stuff, he'd have been for the chop without >any doubt! :-) Or he really could have played with their heads and shown an episode of "Brothers" or "All Creatures Great and Small" John From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Fri Sep 26 13:16:47 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA16095; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:16:37 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21634; Fri, 26 Sep 97 13:16:25 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 11765 invoked by uid 5378); 26 Sep 1997 18:14:25 -0000 Date: 26 Sep 1997 18:14:25 -0000 Message-Id: <199709261801.TAA08695@mailhost.dircon.co.uk> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: "David Alexander" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO Chris Krisocki wrote:- > I just thought of something else about this story: why would the Doctor > choose to show an adventure where he commits genocide at the end? He > seems to be aware of Article 7 when the Inquisitor mentions it, so why > didn't he find something else to show? Did he think the Valeyard > wouldn't notice the outcome? More to the point, perhaps, how can the Doctor be charged with a crime he hasn't even committed yet? davida@dircon.co.uk From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Fri Sep 26 16:42:28 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA06908; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:42:22 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11302; Fri, 26 Sep 97 16:42:11 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 22327 invoked by uid 5378); 26 Sep 1997 21:40:59 -0000 Date: 26 Sep 1997 21:40:59 -0000 Message-Id: <199709262137.HAA29707@smople.thehub.com.au> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: shane@thehub.com.au (Shane Wright) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Status: Status: RO >> More to the point, perhaps, how can the Doctor be charged with a crime he >> hasn't even committed yet? > Surely, whent he Docotr presented evidence from his *future*, The Valeyard, whose immediate ambition as prosecutor was to see that the Doctor had *no* future, would have given up the game. And the Inquisitor would have been rather bemused as to her function in the whole deal, too. saw Hold you in his armchair/ You can feel his disease. From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Fri Sep 26 21:02:00 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA05892; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:01:59 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16294; Fri, 26 Sep 97 21:02:00 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 5809 invoked by uid 5378); 27 Sep 1997 01:59:53 -0000 Date: 27 Sep 1997 01:59:53 -0000 Message-Id: <342C5A84.898@prodigy.net> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: George Morris To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Status: Status: RO > Or perhaps even the High Council would have already known the Valeyard > was the Doctor, and there would have been no trial in the first place? Didn't they though? I don't have access to the episodes, but I thought there was some self interest involved since the high council had turned Earth into a tender crispy strip and was trying to cover it all up. Or am I just not right in the head? By the way, I thought the trial made a lot of sense, and the Valeyard is my favorite DW character of all time, aside from Mary's Romana of course. From drwho-l-owner-shill=info1.harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Sat Sep 27 01:03:24 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA21785; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:03:19 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18137; Sat, 27 Sep 97 01:03:20 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 18514 invoked by uid 5378); 27 Sep 1997 06:01:34 -0000 Date: 27 Sep 1997 06:01:34 -0000 Message-Id: <970927020002_1923694394@emout11.mail.aol.com> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: DerekBD@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Status: Status: RO > >> More to the point, perhaps, how can the Doctor be charged with a crime he > >> hasn't even committed yet? > > > Surely, whent he Docotr presented evidence from his *future*, The Valeyard, > whose immediate ambition as prosecutor was to see that the Doctor had *no* > future, would have given up the game. And the Inquisitor would have been > rather bemused as to her function in the whole deal, too. > But time is like a rubber band. No, it's like a Mobius strip. Or is it like a burrito? To attempt to make real sense (and play devil's advocate) any evidence from the future was only one possible future. Presumably a future that would occur only if the Doctor was not convicted and executed. Or you can also explain it all away by recognizing the Valeyard as a complete loony. Derek - who just heard "Doctor In Distress" for the first time, and is surprised that after that bit of horror we actually got the last 4 seasons. From drwho-l-owner-shill=harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Sat Sep 27 06:30:18 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA20526; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 06:30:12 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21977; Sat, 27 Sep 97 06:30:14 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 5213 invoked by uid 5378); 27 Sep 1997 11:29:13 -0000 Date: 27 Sep 1997 11:29:12 -0000 Message-Id: <8022@bates.wn.planet.gen.nz> Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: abates@wn.planet.gen.nz (Alden Bates) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v3.5 X-Status: Status: RO chrisk@webtv.net (Chris Krisocki) wrote: >I just thought of something else about this story: why would the Doctor >choose to show an adventure where he commits genocide at the end? His main motivation is that he has been accused of interfering in the affairs of others. In TOTV, however, he was specifically asked. How this overrides the hundreds of occasions where he _wasn't_ asked is beyond me. :-) It also shows that without his meddling the human race would be doomed. None of the other people on the Hyperion had an ounce of brain and would never have thought of the vionesium. :-) >He seems to be aware of Article 7 when the Inquisitor mentions it, >so why didn't he find something else to show? Did he think the >Valeyard wouldn't notice the outcome? He also protests that Article 7 couldn't apply because the Vervoids would have wiped out the human race. Alden. -- abates@wn.planet.gen.nz | alden@bates.wn.planet.gen.nz "That's a daft idea." | http://www.wn.planet.gen.nz/~abates/ If replying to news article, please alter the email address From drwho-l-owner-shill=info1.harper.cc.il.us@lists.pipex.com Sat Sep 27 08:48:44 1997 Received: from firewall.harper.cc.il.us by info1.harper.cc.il.us (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA07047; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:48:36 -0500 Received: from solpipe.pipex.net by harper.cc.il.us (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23043; Sat, 27 Sep 97 08:48:36 CDT Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Received: (qmail 11428 invoked by uid 5378); 27 Sep 1997 13:46:20 -0000 Date: 27 Sep 1997 13:46:20 -0000 Message-Id: Errors-To: admin-drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Reply-To: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Originator: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Sender: drwho-l@lists.pipex.com Precedence: bulk From: davidt@cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GV: Terror of the Vervoids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: The Dr Who Mailing List In-Reply-To: <8022@bates.wn.planet.gen.nz> X-Mailer: slip_it 2.2 X-Status: Status: RO abates@wn.planet.gen.nz (Alden Bates) wrote: >He also protests that Article 7 couldn't apply because the Vervoids >would have wiped out the human race. Actually, all animals everywhere not just the apes. Sorry, just watched "Dr Who and the Silurians." David Tiffany